Joyner Lucas Is Growing in Reverse & Leaving Those Who Hurt Him Behind

While some people mature with age and the added experiences that come with life, Joyner Lucas believes he’s growing in reverse.

Lucas spells out exactly that on the self-titled Not Now I’m Busy outro, which features a harrowing voice message admitting to killing his older self and calling out those who stabbed him in the back as the 35-year-old rapper, is moving on without the people who took his kindness for weakness.

“On the album, it’s pretty much — you know when people try to shed their old skin and become a better person? Well this is me shedding my old skin as a good person and becoming a worse person,” he says with spite in a visit to Billboard earlier in March.

“It’s like growing in a bad way,” he continues. “It’s doing the opposite. You can only get f—-d over so many times. You face so many trials and tribulations of people that have done you dirty. Now it’s f—k you.”

Much has changed for the hardened “Ramen & OJ” rapper since his last visit to Billboard in 2017. Nowadays, the icy chains are way bigger, grills are shinier and he’s traded out an Air Jordan t-shirt for a Gucci windbreaker. Back then, he was still an emerging act, hungry to make a name for himself and take a bite out of rap’s mainstream while signed to Atlantic Records.

Not long after, Joyner ditched the major label system to navigate the independent route, where he’s carved out a lane for himself as a premier storyteller and cinematic video director — which even earned him a Grammy nomination (for “I’m Not Racist” in 2019).

Joyner’s authenticity and shrewd wordplay touching on topics with substance in a way that pierce listeners’ souls has endeared him to millions across the globe. Many of his idols have become mentors along his turbulent journey, with Will Smith, Eminem and Mark Wahlberg all now collaborators who are just one call away.

With Not Now I’m Busy, Joyner’s first project since 2020, the rapper turns his angst and frustration into fervid art, while enlisting an array of collaborators across 17 tracks — ranging from YoungBoy Never Broke Again to the late rap legend DMX and current crossover country star Jelly Roll.

“A lot of good relationships turned bad due to entitlement, a lot of f—ked up s–t. I think that a lot of that is due to me being this great person… this forgiving person,” he adds. “People took advantage of that.” 

Below, Joyner Lucas delves deeper into his friendship with DMX, flipping Mac Miller’s “Donald Trump,” putting the new generation of rappers on blast and much more.

Where has Joyner Lucas been the last few years?

I just took that time to spend with my kids. I dropped singles and s–t. I’ve been experimenting with different things. I’ve been kind of enjoying part of life where you don’t got to stress out and enjoy the fruits of your labor a little bit.

When did this album start to take form?

Probably like two years ago. I was feeling overwhelmed and under pressure. Feeling like you’re spread thin. You’re trying to manage a bunch of different things at once. You literally feel too busy for anything even the important things. To me, it started with me feeling overwhelmed — but then also I encountered a lot of situations where I let some people that were in my life [go]. 

That sounds like Kanye West’s recent post where he was giving “f–k you”s to everyone. 

He’s explaining the exact things I’m talking about on this album. The thing Kanye’s going through, you could tell the way he carries himself, he’s just over all that. F–k everybody. They tried to do a lot of s–t. So is he gonna have this huge positive outlook and become this positive person? Absolutely not.

I was feeling those two things at the same time. You’re experiencing being too busy, but then you’re also feeling like you’re too busy to face the truth. And the truth is that people ain’t s–t. A lot of people grow in a positive way. Like Will Smith, he’ll grow from his mistakes and find a positive way to look at things. I’m just not that. I feel like I was that. Growing up in a negative way. It’s just f—k you now. That’s where I’m at with it. It’s a lot of experiences until I got to this point and I’m like, “F–k you.” That’s what this album is about.

Walk me through how the record came together with DMX and Symba. It’s my understanding you recorded that when he was still here with us.

Yeah, I spent some time with X. I got a chance to get to know him and ask him a lot of questions about his life. Before he passed, probably a year. When you hear that record, it kind of sounds like he’s still alive, right? I’m happy that people get to hear that verse.

How did your relationship with Jelly Roll come about? You guys were speaking on some serious topics there, as far as substance abuse and all that, on “Best for Me.”

Jelly Roll, he’s a great guy. My mom loves him. He’s a really big fan of mine. There’s a lot of records in the pipeline that we’re in the middle of creating as well. I’m excited to work with him [more]. I just love his aura and everything he stands for. He’s been through a lot of things, but he’s someone that overcame that and now he’s this really positive person.

I wish I was like that. I’m growing backward. Some people grow forward, but I grow backward. He talks a lot about the opioid crisis and I got some family members that had some problems and this was a personal record to both of us. I think a lot of people can benefit from it. 

What made you want to sample Mac Miller’s “Donald Trump” for “Seventeen?”

I always loved that beat and I always loved that record. I always loved Mac Miller. I thought he was fire. He’s another one that passed away due to the same thing we talked about on “Best for Me.” I got the opportunity to sample that record and do what I wanted to do it and shout him out. 

You’re talking some s–t on there saying “the new generation of rappers are f—king illiterate.”

You know some of the music is f—–g r—-ded. Some of it is fire. It’s melodies and whatever, but some of these n—-s aren’t saying s–t. There’s literally no substance at all. It’s weird a lot of people think about that like NBA YoungBoy but I think YoungBoy is fire. A lot of artists try to group him in there but I don’t put him in that category. I just think that the new generation of rappers are f—king illiterate. It’s self-explanatory I guess.

You got Logic on the album again. It wasn’t all love there between you guys at one point. What conversation took place there to move forward?

Yeah, we had a conversation. I didn’t really know Logic before. When I kinda got to know Logic I realized that I had a revelation because a lot of the things I accused him of or a lot of the things he was doing, these are the things people assume of me. I related to that. I’m like, “Damn bro, people are accusing me and s–t all the time.” Joyner put out this video but I had the same idea, Joyner stole my idea for this. I was going through the s–t I was accusing him of doing.

When I had talked to him I was like, “Yo bro, I owe you an apology, because I’m going through some s–t.” It was a real apology and we became cool after that. I played him “Isis,” which I originally sent to Marshall [Eminem], but he had so much going on that I ended up letting Logic do his thing. 

You had a tweet asking upcoming artists about giving themselves a certain cut-off age to “make it” in music before quitting. Why was it 28 for you?

The more older you get, the more responsibilities that you have. You start having kids and move out of your parents’ house. You got a job to pay your rent. I know that the first five or six years of trying to break into the industry, you can’t have a job, because of the way you have to move around and do the things you need to do to get where you want to go. It’s impossible to have a job. You can’t fly out to this producer because you got to go to work. You can’t be all in if you got real life s–t. If you don’t have an investor, unless you’re trying to sell some drugs, you don’t have financial backing. You’re forced to find a job and trying to balance that with breaking into the game, which is extremerly difficult.

Knowing that, I gave myself until 29. Where I could at least make a living, or seeing that it’s working, then I’m done pursuing this dream. 29 [for me]. That’s why the label is Twenty Nine Music Group. 

Would you say you have the same hunger for music compared to 2016 or 2017?

At that time, it was survival. A survival hunger is you going outside and you sitting there rubbing sticks together figuring out to make a fire because you’re in the woods and f—-d. Some people figure it out, some people don’t.

I figured it out. Now I built me a nice little tent. I managed to obtain a vehicle on this island. I made me a nice little joint. Now it’s the family and village. Chains got bigger, grills are in. Now it’s, how do we keep bringing the food supplies into the village? I know how to catch the food, but how do I catch the food at a larger quantity to feed more people? It’s not just feeding your existing fan base but growing the audience that you have now and tapping into different realms while staying true to you. 

What’s some advice you’ve taken while talking to Will Smith?

One thing Will [Smith] says to me is, “Don’t be afraid to fail.” I’ve always been afraid to fail. I have to wear the face. The people will look at me and say, “You failed.” It’s on me. They don’t look at [my manager] Drew, they look at Joyner and say, “You f—ked up.” Because I have to wear the face, the pressure is on me.

Will’s failed a lot. We don’t know about it, but those fails to him I wouldn’t look at as a failure. Wild Wild West, he doesn’t like that movie. The reason he doesn’t is maybe because of how it performed. When you put that next to Men In Black, and Wild Wild West didn’t perform the same. Maybe he didn’t like the way it came out. That to him was a big fail. He had The Matrix and said that he had [the choice to play] Neo and chose Wild Wild West. That’s a big misstep. Those are big mistakes to him. He’s still in the movie — he’s still Will and he looks at it differently. 

I drop a record with Future and the record comes out. Mind you, before it comes out I’m like, “I don’t know about it.” This is a different sound for Joyner. I’m talking about s–t I did before I got on. I’m not in that place anymore but I went back to that place. When the record came out and it didn’t do what I wanted it to do, I felt like I f—ked up. My fans didn’t like that s–t. I understood why. That record wasn’t for them. That was to try to get a whole new audience. I enjoy Future’s music and he came off on that record. I had to make a decision if I could go rickety-rap on that s–t, but why would I do that on a song with him? I had to dumb it down to the point it almost didn’t sound like Joyner.

At that point, I felt like I wasn’t being true to myself. The record doesn’t do what I wanted. This is my don’t be afraid to fail moment. The feedback I got was, “What the f–k is this?” I tried to step out of my realm to try to capture another audience but I didn’t do what made sense. I didn’t do it with taste. It should’ve been a record that made more sense. I went too left-field. I love that record, but at the same time, I hate it. I actually like Future’s music, but I don’t know if I want to hear myself on that.

How did you end up starring in Family Plan with Mark Wahlberg — and what’s your role in Bad Boys 4?

Mark Wahlberg reached out to me when I dropped the “Will” record. He said, “Man, we from Boston and you’re gonna make a song about Will.” He invited me to his house in L.A., we played pool and kicked it and built a relationship. He really cares about me as a person. Any way that he can [he wants to help]. When I was having some issues with an agency, he stepped in and went to bat for me. “Yo, we gotta start doing some s–t for Joyner.” 

I would always bug him about the movies, and I put him in the video for “Zim Zimma.” He plugged me in and gave me a cool role. Got paid a nice little amount. I got a couple lines, but I was in a lot of the movie. I had a nice little part with him and got a knife put in my eye. It was a cool experience. 

Just putting the bug in Will’s ear, “I need to be in that Bad Boys 4.” They was in production and I was in his ear like, “Yo, give me that role.” He’s like, “I got you.” We work on a ton of music together. He ended up hitting me up saying, “I’m sending you the script.” Will has been someone I’ve always looked up to. I made a whole song idolizing him and then being next to this guy shooting a movie. Holy s–t. One thing, if Michael Jackson was alive, I feel like I could’ve created something that [we’d collaborate on]. I would’ve went through his whole life. 

Is there anyone else you want to work with left on that list?

There’s a lot of people. Jay-Z for sure, Rihanna, Taylor Swift. I want a Taylor Swift record. I love Taylor Swift. [I’d] put Taylor on a fire-ass hook.